Kerry Thornley: Master of Pranks and Lies
Kerry ThornleyWith Kerry Thornley now neatly revered as the founder of a religion based on a spoof, a series of articles has appeared to "vindicate" Kerry Thornley as a truthful man whose testimony about the Kennedy assassination can be trusted.
A vision of "Thornley as truthteller" is now being invoked to discredit me as a witness, part of a project to do so that began in January, 2015 with some Facebook posts full of jeers, which then evolved to threats to sue me, to call the FBI, and even kill me.
This is the first of a series of articles exposing, point by point, why Kerry Thornley is being raised to the status of a saintly truth-teller, and how the truth can set you free from any such belief.
I saw Thornley twice in May, 1963 --once on May 8, and once on May 28. (See Me & Lee: How I came to know, love and lose Lee Harvey Oswald, Trine Day, 2011, p. 256-257 and p. 318 ).
Using Thornley's lies to discredit me is creating havoc. By accepting Thornley's lies as "truth" they are then being used by "Lone Nutters" and Warren Commission defenders to discredit other truthful witnesses and honorable researchers who have rejected those same lies.
"Kerry Thornley: Master of Pranks and Lies" is the first of a series of articles written to correct the disinformation.
"Kerry Thornley: Master of Pranks and Lies" is the first of a series of articles written to correct the disinformation.
Example One:
Let's begin with a few of Thornley's statements published in the late 1990's that these 'researchers' don't want you to read. They want you to believe Thornley, so that you will accept all of Thornley's statements about his time spent in New Orleans in 1963. That's when Thornley wants us to believe that he never met the man -- Lee Harvey Oswald-- who was also living there, about whom Thornley was writing his first book, The Idle Warriors. Thornley says he never saw Lee Oswald in New Orleans in May and he never saw Lee Oswald in New Orleans in September, even though witnesses such as myself have stated otherwise.
After reading a portion of this interview, below, ask yourself if this is a man you would trust to tell the truth concerning what he knew about Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy assassination:
Kerry Thornley, interviewed by "Working Class Hero Magazine":
Let's begin with a few of Thornley's statements published in the late 1990's that these 'researchers' don't want you to read. They want you to believe Thornley, so that you will accept all of Thornley's statements about his time spent in New Orleans in 1963. That's when Thornley wants us to believe that he never met the man -- Lee Harvey Oswald-- who was also living there, about whom Thornley was writing his first book, The Idle Warriors. Thornley says he never saw Lee Oswald in New Orleans in May and he never saw Lee Oswald in New Orleans in September, even though witnesses such as myself have stated otherwise.
After reading a portion of this interview, below, ask yourself if this is a man you would trust to tell the truth concerning what he knew about Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy assassination:
Kerry Thornley, interviewed by "Working Class Hero Magazine":
K.T.: It’s like fate, the conspiracy. There were Nazi breeding experiments which I think Oswald and myself may have been products of.
W.C.H.: Similar to the CIA mind control experiments?
K.T.: That was involved also, but it was a little more complicated than that. The North Koreans had some enormously sophisticated mind control technology. As it turns out members of North and South Korea’s government were part of the Japanese (column?). During the war, they were getting this technology from the Japanese, it was stuff the Germans developed unbeknownst to American Intelligence. I believe I was being mind controlled by them even before I went into the military. Then the CIA got a hold of me up until the Kennedy assassination.
W.C.H.: Controlled in what manner?
K.T.: Well, it’s spooky; very hard to believe.
W.C.H.: Like the Russian ESP experiments?
K.T.: Very strange. They could influence my choice of words, so that it would sound like I was speaking in intelligence code. Things that I didn’t realize even existed. And I think back on arguments I had with my parents, and I remember how “freaked out” they were at the time. It was like, all of a sudden one day I started speaking these double entendre sentences. Like a type of “cant” language.
W.C.H.: Like doublespeak?
K.T.: Yeah, exactly! Precisely! And my parents thought I was a “genius” (laughs) of some kind, to have figured all of this out by myself. Then later on they deduced I was being mind controlled. Also Dulles went nuts trying to figure out how the Koreans got a hold of such sophisticated techniques. Then when I got into the marines, I think Delgado at Yale planted something in my head at that point. I believe one of the purposes of the Kennedy assassination was to get those of us who had been torn out of the clutches of the Japanese by the CIA., back into the hands of the Japanese. (laughs) (emphasis by JVB)
(from Working Class Hero Magazine )
It can be argued that the Hero interview was conducted later in his life, by which time Th0rnley had gone mad, but that we can still trust his statements in the 1960's as utterly truthful and reliable, including everything Thornley told the Warren Commission, the Secret Service, Jim Garrison, etc. So let's look at a few examples from this time period:
1965: Thornley helps write and publish Discordia Principia, a clever spoof-- also a kind of religion-- based on the true importance of chaos over order. Reading just the selection below will give you the flavor of the whole text
5th edition introduction:
by Kerry Thornley, Discordian Society Co-founder ( also known as "Lord Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst") wrote:
"Every few thousand years some shepard inhales smoke from a burning bush and has a vision or eats moldy rye
bread in a cave and sees God. From then on their followers kill one another at the slightest provocation. Haunted houses
called temples are built by one side and torn down by another - and then bloody quarrels continue over the crumbling
foundations.
Organized religion preaches Order and Love but spawns Chaos and Fury.
Why? Because the whole Material Universe is exclusive property of the Greco-Roman Goddess of Chaos, Confusion, Strife, Helter-Skelter and Hodge- Podge. No Spiritual power is even strong enough to dent Her chariot fenders. No material force can resist the temptation of Her Fifth Intergalactic Bank of the Acropolis Slush Fund for Graft and Corruption.
All this was revealed to me in an absolutely unforgettable miraculous event in 1958 or 1959 in a bowling alley in Friendly Hills or maybe Santa Fe Springs, California, witnessed by either Gregory Hill or Malaclypse the Younger or perhaps Mad Malik or Reverend Doctor Occupant or some guy who must have vaguely resembled one or another of them.
With the help of a Chaosopher’s Stone I found the Goddess Eris Discordia in my pineal gland (on Cosmic Channel Number Five) and ever since I have known the answers to all the mysteries of metaphysics, metamystics, metamorhpics, metanoiacs and metaphorics. (Before that I didn’t even know how to install a plastic trash can liner so it wouldn’t fall down inside the first time somebody threw away garbage.) You, too can activate your pineal gland simply by reciting the entire contents of this book upon awakening each morning, rubbing sandalwood paste between your eyes each evening upon retiring, banging your forehead against the ground five times a day, refraining from harming cockroaches and meditating (defined as sitting around waiting for good luck). When your pineal gland finally lights up you will never again, as long as you live, have to relax."
Organized religion preaches Order and Love but spawns Chaos and Fury.
Why? Because the whole Material Universe is exclusive property of the Greco-Roman Goddess of Chaos, Confusion, Strife, Helter-Skelter and Hodge- Podge. No Spiritual power is even strong enough to dent Her chariot fenders. No material force can resist the temptation of Her Fifth Intergalactic Bank of the Acropolis Slush Fund for Graft and Corruption.
All this was revealed to me in an absolutely unforgettable miraculous event in 1958 or 1959 in a bowling alley in Friendly Hills or maybe Santa Fe Springs, California, witnessed by either Gregory Hill or Malaclypse the Younger or perhaps Mad Malik or Reverend Doctor Occupant or some guy who must have vaguely resembled one or another of them.
With the help of a Chaosopher’s Stone I found the Goddess Eris Discordia in my pineal gland (on Cosmic Channel Number Five) and ever since I have known the answers to all the mysteries of metaphysics, metamystics, metamorhpics, metanoiacs and metaphorics. (Before that I didn’t even know how to install a plastic trash can liner so it wouldn’t fall down inside the first time somebody threw away garbage.) You, too can activate your pineal gland simply by reciting the entire contents of this book upon awakening each morning, rubbing sandalwood paste between your eyes each evening upon retiring, banging your forehead against the ground five times a day, refraining from harming cockroaches and meditating (defined as sitting around waiting for good luck). When your pineal gland finally lights up you will never again, as long as you live, have to relax."
JVB: "I find such writing a pleasant diversion. It doesn't reflect madness --it's more along the lines of genius. But as support for Kerry as a truth-telling being, it falls flat on its face."
It's a fact that the last thing Kerry Thornley wanted in 1963-1969 was to get identified in the Kennedy assassination as a co-conspirator along with Lee Harvey Oswald. However, by the mid-sixties his book The Idle Warriors, which was a hit piece on Lee Oswald as a former friend in the Marine, had sold 17,000 copies. Thornley, who had lived in New Orleans both in April and September of 1963,when Lee Oswald had also lived there, would contend that he never met the man about whom he was writing.
Here's an example of what Thornley told Garrison's Grand Jury in 1968, after a witness, Barbara Reid, insisted she had seen Thornley and Lee Oswald together in a bar in New Orleans in September, 1963. See if you can believe Thornley as he denies meeting Lee Oswald (however some "researchers" swallow what you are about to read as "truth"):
Here's an example of what Thornley told Garrison's Grand Jury in 1968, after a witness, Barbara Reid, insisted she had seen Thornley and Lee Oswald together in a bar in New Orleans in September, 1963. See if you can believe Thornley as he denies meeting Lee Oswald (however some "researchers" swallow what you are about to read as "truth"):
Thornley, to Garrison's Grand Jury: "... I am saying Barbara is suggesting, she is saying, well maybe you didn't recognize
him, he came walking in and of course there is always the
other consideration that I was revising the book at that time
and he could have come walking in, and she convinced me that
this is what probably happened, he came walking in and sat
next to me and we were talking to her and she made this comment
on my voice and she went back to her conversation and I went
back to mine . . . ."
So... Kerry says he was 'revising' his book about Lee Oswald at that time, Barbara said Lee came in and sat down next to Kerry, but somehow, Kerry didn't recognize him, even though Barbara Reid did. and somehow, "she convinced me that this is probably what happened...."
The Grand Jury also got this:
The Grand Jury also got this:
Q. Did she see you with Oswald?
A. I don't think she did because the next day I started asking
people . . . .
Which prompted this remark:
Q. You don't think so?
A. I don't know whether it was Oswald, I can't remember who was
sitting there with me, I don't think it was Oswald for two
reasons, the first thing is if I could remember who it was
then I could say definitely, in view of the fact that . . . . .
Q. I understand those facts, but in view of the fact that you
were writing a novel about him, I should think you would
recognize him.
A. Yes, this was Barbara's theory.... First of all, the next day I started saying
to people Barbara is sure she saw me with Oswald in the
Bourbon House. That is the first thing. I kept asking
people.
(This sounds like a concerned man who started asking people after the assassination if they remembered seeing him with Lee Oswald.)
(This sounds like a concerned man who started asking people after the assassination if they remembered seeing him with Lee Oswald.)
Q. Did you ask them if they saw you at the Bourbon House with
Oswald?
A. I said Barbara is sure she saw me at the Bourbon House with
Oswald, I don't know whether that is true or not but she is sure she saw me there and she has convinced me that she saw me.
Kerry Thornley Makes a Slip-up
Oddly, Thornley also told the Grand Jury that he thought he might have seen Marina Oswald, Lee's wife, recently, as she was waiting for a bus.
GARRISON: Have you ever met Marina?
THORNLEY: Not that I know of, I thought I saw her standing waiting for
a bus when I got off here, but Moe said he was sure it wouldn't
be her because she wouldn't be alone."
Did Thornley say this just in case "somebody" might have seen him interacting with Marina, at the bus stop? Might she have recognized him? After all, I'm not the only witness who has stated that Thornley and Marina Oswald knew each other.
His comment was made during the session after lunch when Thornley was questioned by Jim Garrison himself:
GARRISON: But you did not meet her in 1963?
THORNLEY: Not that I know of. [This is the second time Thornley says "Not that I know of" which keeps the possibility open, in case another witness might speak up and disagree, later.] This is the thing. The French quarter
is such a small place you see each other even though there
are a lot of people and you pass somebody on the street and
not recognize them, of course I would not have recognized her
then because I would not have known who she was...
Thornley seems to realize that he said too much. Another example of Thornley's shadow-boxing has to do with yet another statement to Garrison's Grand Jury:
Q. Were you aware that Oswald was in New Orleans approximately
a week before you left?
A. No, in fact I was not aware of that until you say it now.
Thornley wants us to believe that he "was not aware of that" --the very dates when Lee Oswald was in New Orleans -- which was one of the most persistent questions that he was being asked by everybody, including the Grand Jury.
After all, Thornley was asked if he was aware that Lee was in New Orleans at the same time Thornley was by the Warren Commission itself, way back in May, 1964:
After all, Thornley was asked if he was aware that Lee was in New Orleans at the same time Thornley was by the Warren Commission itself, way back in May, 1964:
Mr. JENNER. It follows, I take it, that you were never aware that he was in New Orleans when you were there?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; I wasn't.
Therefore, we can see that he is lying to Garrison. Nevertheless, some "researchers" find it useful to insist that Thornley told only the truth.
More About Thornley's Beliefs
In 1964, Thornley wrote a letter to his friend Adam Gorightly, where Thornley says he was a Marxist who was "...about ready to look up a friend in San Francisco who belonged to the Communist Party and ask him what I could do to speed up the revolution, when I picked up Atlas Shrugged [by Ayn Rand] as a good, long book to read at sea. Well, by the time I set foot on U.S. soil again I knew i'd happened upon a genius. It took me about two years to work out and adjust to my new philosophy, but I knew it'd be worth bit. it is." (from pp. 42-43 of The Prankster and the Conspiracy).
What were Th0rnley's earlier religious and political beliefs? Thornley, well known for trying practically every drug known to man, was raised a Mormon.
In his introduction to his Discordian religion, Thornley writes: "When in 1968 I first declared myself a Saint, Gregory Hill said, "That's impossible," insisting, "Only dead people can be Saints," adding, "and fictional characters," guessing, "You are neither one." But it happened that, although I was no longer a believer, I was still on the membership roles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...Me and all the other Mormons were already Saints - and some of us living ones - no matter what he said. Nowadays only the Mormons have more Saints than the Discordian Society. But we plan to catch up with them."
Thornley's Lies About Lee Harvey Oswald
We should look closely at those who insist that Thornley needs to be 'vindicated.' Thornley's lies about Lee Oswald pervade Warren Commission defenders' books. For example, Norman Mailer (Oswald's Tale, New York, Random Books, 2007, p.357) said Thornley stated Oswald had rejected Christianity, saying, "the best religion is Communism." He obtained that remark from Thornley's testimony to the Warren Commission.
Lee told those interrogating him after Kennedy was shot, "What religion am I? I have no faith. I suppose you mean, in the Bible. I have read the Bible. It is fair reading, but not very interesting. As a matter of fact, I am a student of philosophy and I don't consider the Bible as even a reasonable or intelligent philosophy. I don't think of it." Since the police reported that Lee Oswald was a Communist and openly proud of it (which was a lie) they would also have mentioned that "the best religion is Communism" had Lee mentioned such a thing. It would have proven what kind of evil man he was. But he didn't, so they didn't.
Thornley went on to tell the Warren Commission much more that he thought would please them:
Mr. THORNLEY. It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best--that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
WC E 25, VOl. XVI: Lee Oswald, having experienced both systems, wrote a speech, from which I quote here (errors corrected):
"We have lived into a dark generation of tension and fear.
But how many of you have tried to find out the truth behind the cold-war cliches? I have lived under both systems; I have sought the answers, and although it would be very easy to dupe myself into believing one system is better than the other, I know they are not.
I despise the representatives of both systems: whether they be socialist or Christian democracies, whether they be labor or conservative, they are all products of the two systems."
The chummy relationship between the Warren Commission's Jenner and Thornley is demonstrated here:
MR. JENNER: We occasionally have been off the record, not often, and I have talked with you on the telephone. Is there anything that was said between us in the course of our telephone conversations or in any off-the-record discussions that you think is pertinent to the Commission's assignment of investigating the assassination of President Kennedy that I have failed to bring onto the record?
MR. THORNLEY: No, sir; I think we have very thoroughly covered it.
Anyone going through Kerry Thornley's Warren Commission testimony will find references to Lee as a communist, dressing in a slovenly manner with scuffed shoes, baiting his superior officers, and being over-emotional, with a 'smirk' on his face.
Thornley, who was only slightly taller than Lee, describes Lee as much shorter than himself. He describes Lee at the proper weight, which would have meant that Lee was short and fat! It's probably the strangest part of Kerry Thornley's testimony to the Warren Commission. Thornley's inability to correctly describe Lee even as to height is rather shocking:
Thornley could say absolutely nothing about Lee personally: he didn't even know Lee's father was dead, that Lee came from Texas, or if he had graduated from high school. Thornley never played a single game of chess with Lee. He never stepped into his living quarters. Thornley didn't even know that Lee liked classical music.
EXAMPLE: MR. THORNLEY: Well, I don't recall us ever having a private serious discussion.
Once, Jenner has to 'catch' Thornley from admitting that he had seen Lee Oswald as a civilian (in other words, that Thornley had seen Lee in New Orleans). Here's where the 'catch' is made:
(Jenner knows it would be disastrous to let it slip that Thornley had met Lee Oswald when they were both civilians.)
A Brave Man Tells a Different Story About Lee Harvey Oswald (Compare to Kerry Thornley's version)
Lee's Group Leader, Nelson Delgado, said he was threatened with death for stating the truth about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was even shot in the shoulder. In this video, he tells us that he moved to England with his family because he feared he would be killed by the FBI.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTb8Z4MMqHs )
From Delgado's Testimony to the Warren Commission:
[CONTEXT: Delgado previously explained that both of them had supported Castro over the dictator, Batista, and that Lee Oswald wanted to help free the Cuban people.]
Mr. DELGADO -... He spoke Russian pretty good, so I understand.
Mr. LIEBELER - How do you understand that?
Mr. DELGADO - He tried to teach me some Russian. He would put out a whole phrase, you know. In return for my teaching him Spanish, he would try to teach me Russian. But it's a tongue twister.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't have any understanding of the Russian language?
Mr. DELGADO - No...You have to have a desire to use this language, you know, and I had no need to learn Russian. And just the reverse of him. He wanted to learn Spanish. He had some idea of using Spanish later on. I'm sure if this hadn't happened, he probably would be over there now, if he hadn't been already.
Mr. LIEBELER - In Cuba, you mean?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you have any reason to believe that he has been in Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO - Well, a guy like him would find--would have no difficulty in getting into Cuba. They would accept him real fast.
Delgado shows that he was an actual friend who wanted to see Lee Oswald again, when he makes this comment:
Mr. LIEBELER - You never met Oswald at any time while you were in Germany?
Mr. DELGADO - No. I wanted to---I knew that he was over there going to school, and I can't for the life of me recall where I got the scoop that I thought he was going to some school in Berlin, and I was thinking of going over there, to see if I could find him, but I never did follow through. There was too much red tape.
Here's more that's positive about Lee from Delgado, and it includes information I can agree with, about Lee's high intelligence (IQ tests back then did not take into account dyslexia, as they would today):
Mr. LIEBELER - Just how well do you think Oswald learned to speak Spanish during the time that he was associated with you in the Marine Corps?
Mr. DELGADO - He could meet the average people from the streets and hold a conversation with them. He could make himself understood and be understood...
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think Oswald was an intelligent person?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; I did. More intelligent than I am, and I have a 117, supposedly, IQ, and he could comprehend things faster and was interested in things that I wasn't interested in: politics, music, things like that, so much so like an intellectual. He didn't read poetry or anything like that, but as far as books and concert music and things like that, he was a great fan.
Delgado also doesn't take the bait that Liebeler offers:
Mr. LIEBELER - This FBI agent says that you told him that Oswald became so proficient in Spanish that Oswald would discuss his ideas on socialism in Spanish.
Mr. DELGADO - He would discuss his ideas, but not anything against our Government or--nothing Socialist, mind you.
While Delgado agreed that some officers thought little of Lee, and some, such as an Officer Funk, picked on Lee habitually, Delgado asks to go on record to correct a lie made by an officer to Life Magazine:
Mr. DELGADO - May I go on the record, because there was a statement I read in Life Magazine?
Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.
Mr. DELGADO - And it's erroneous.
Mr. LIEBELER - What did it say?
Mr. DELGADO - It is quoting a Lieutenant Cupenack, and he made a statement there in Life... saying he was Oswald's commanding officer, Oswald was on the football team... that is the only true fact in the whole statement that he made. Also that he [Lee] had a run-in with a captain that was on the football team, and because of this argument he went off the team... Lieutenant Cupenack was a supply officer. He seldom came in contact with Oswald. ..
Mr. LIEBELER - This lieutenant?
Mr. DELGADO - Right. I just thought it funny, him saying that he was commanding officer over Oswald; that he had a lot of trouble with Oswald. ..a supply officer hardly ever comes in contact with the troops, and to say that a lieutenant is going to override a lieutenant colonel is ridiculous.
Delgado noted that a hated officer--Funk-- and Lee Oswald didn't get along at all, and that Funk picked on him; in response, Lee would resist obeying him:
Mr. DELGADO - He [Lee] had nothing to do with him. Always tried to find fault. The man had a lot of faults. He was very sloppy.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who?
Mr. DELGADO - Funk. And he had a tendency to---he was very--very bad leader, in my opinion, because NCO's in the Marine Corps, you carry a sword, and we loved to see him carry a sword, because when you salute him, he brings the sword up to here (indicating) like this, and one of these days it's going to happen, because the blade would be swinging next to his ear, and we're all waiting for that thing to happen. That's what I remember about Funk. He wasn't there too long.
Delgado describes Lee concerning anger management (There is no doubt that Lee was prone to gripe. Delgado says "Oz" was obedient if asked to do something, but would argue if he was ordered to do it. ):
Mr. DELGADO - ....he never got into arguments with me. He liked to talk politics with one fellow particularly, Call, and he would argue with him, and Oswald would get to a point where he would get utterly disgusted with the discussion and got out of the room. Whenever it got to the point where anger was going to show, he would stop cold and walk out and leave the conversation in the air.
Mr. LIEBELER - He never got mad at anybody?
Mr. DELGADO - Not physically mad, no.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever know him to get into a fight with anybody at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO - No.
Compare this with what Kerry Thornley told the Warren Commission:
MR. THORNLEY: ...he seemed to be a person who would go out of his way to get into trouble, get some officer or staff sergeant mad at him...
To the very end, regarding Delgado, Liebeler did his best to try to elicit support for a final "lone nut" and "crazy" statement from Delgado. After all, they had been successful in guiding Kerry Thornley into making such a statement.:
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever think that he was mentally unbalanced?
Mr. DELGADO - He never got real mad where he'd show any ravings of any sort, you know. He controlled himself pretty good.
Mr. LIEBELER - If you can't remember anything else about Oswald, I have no more questions
Mr. THORNLEY. No; I wasn't.
Therefore, we can see that he is lying to Garrison. Nevertheless, some "researchers" find it useful to insist that Thornley told only the truth.
More About Thornley's Beliefs
In 1964, Thornley wrote a letter to his friend Adam Gorightly, where Thornley says he was a Marxist who was "...about ready to look up a friend in San Francisco who belonged to the Communist Party and ask him what I could do to speed up the revolution, when I picked up Atlas Shrugged [by Ayn Rand] as a good, long book to read at sea. Well, by the time I set foot on U.S. soil again I knew i'd happened upon a genius. It took me about two years to work out and adjust to my new philosophy, but I knew it'd be worth bit. it is." (from pp. 42-43 of The Prankster and the Conspiracy).
What were Th0rnley's earlier religious and political beliefs? Thornley, well known for trying practically every drug known to man, was raised a Mormon.
In his introduction to his Discordian religion, Thornley writes: "When in 1968 I first declared myself a Saint, Gregory Hill said, "That's impossible," insisting, "Only dead people can be Saints," adding, "and fictional characters," guessing, "You are neither one." But it happened that, although I was no longer a believer, I was still on the membership roles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...Me and all the other Mormons were already Saints - and some of us living ones - no matter what he said. Nowadays only the Mormons have more Saints than the Discordian Society. But we plan to catch up with them."
Thornley's Lies About Lee Harvey Oswald
We should look closely at those who insist that Thornley needs to be 'vindicated.' Thornley's lies about Lee Oswald pervade Warren Commission defenders' books. For example, Norman Mailer (Oswald's Tale, New York, Random Books, 2007, p.357) said Thornley stated Oswald had rejected Christianity, saying, "the best religion is Communism." He obtained that remark from Thornley's testimony to the Warren Commission.
Lee told those interrogating him after Kennedy was shot, "What religion am I? I have no faith. I suppose you mean, in the Bible. I have read the Bible. It is fair reading, but not very interesting. As a matter of fact, I am a student of philosophy and I don't consider the Bible as even a reasonable or intelligent philosophy. I don't think of it." Since the police reported that Lee Oswald was a Communist and openly proud of it (which was a lie) they would also have mentioned that "the best religion is Communism" had Lee mentioned such a thing. It would have proven what kind of evil man he was. But he didn't, so they didn't.
Thornley went on to tell the Warren Commission much more that he thought would please them:
Mr. THORNLEY. It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best--that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
WC E 25, VOl. XVI: Lee Oswald, having experienced both systems, wrote a speech, from which I quote here (errors corrected):
"We have lived into a dark generation of tension and fear.
But how many of you have tried to find out the truth behind the cold-war cliches? I have lived under both systems; I have sought the answers, and although it would be very easy to dupe myself into believing one system is better than the other, I know they are not.
I despise the representatives of both systems: whether they be socialist or Christian democracies, whether they be labor or conservative, they are all products of the two systems."
The chummy relationship between the Warren Commission's Jenner and Thornley is demonstrated here:
MR. JENNER: We occasionally have been off the record, not often, and I have talked with you on the telephone. Is there anything that was said between us in the course of our telephone conversations or in any off-the-record discussions that you think is pertinent to the Commission's assignment of investigating the assassination of President Kennedy that I have failed to bring onto the record?
MR. THORNLEY: No, sir; I think we have very thoroughly covered it.
Anyone going through Kerry Thornley's Warren Commission testimony will find references to Lee as a communist, dressing in a slovenly manner with scuffed shoes, baiting his superior officers, and being over-emotional, with a 'smirk' on his face.
Thornley, who was only slightly taller than Lee, describes Lee as much shorter than himself. He describes Lee at the proper weight, which would have meant that Lee was short and fat! It's probably the strangest part of Kerry Thornley's testimony to the Warren Commission. Thornley's inability to correctly describe Lee even as to height is rather shocking:
MR. THORNLEY: Physically, I would say he was slightly below average height. Had, as I recall, gray or blue eyes. Always had, or almost always had a petulant expression on his face. Pursed-up lip expression, either a frown or a smile, depending on the circumstances. Was of average build, and his hair was brown, and tending to, like mine, tending to bald a little on each side.
MR. JENNER: Above the temple. What would you say he weighed?
MR. THORNLEY: I would say he weighed about 140 pounds, maybe 130.
MR. JENNER: How tall was he?
MR. THORNLEY: I would say he was about five-five maybe. I don't know.
MR. JENNER: How tall are you?
MR. THORNLEY: I am five-ten.
MR. JENNER: Was he shorter than you?
MR. THORNLEY: Yes.
Thornley could say absolutely nothing about Lee personally: he didn't even know Lee's father was dead, that Lee came from Texas, or if he had graduated from high school. Thornley never played a single game of chess with Lee. He never stepped into his living quarters. Thornley didn't even know that Lee liked classical music.
EXAMPLE: MR. THORNLEY: Well, I don't recall us ever having a private serious discussion.
Once, Jenner has to 'catch' Thornley from admitting that he had seen Lee Oswald as a civilian (in other words, that Thornley had seen Lee in New Orleans). Here's where the 'catch' is made:
MR. JENNER: What habits did he have with respect to his person -- was he neat, clean?
MR. THORNLEY: Extremely sloppy.
MR. JENNER: Extremely sloppy?
MR. THORNLEY: He was. This I think might not have been true of him in civilian life.
MR. JENNER: You don't know one way or the other?
MR. THORNLEY: No; but I do have reason to believe that it wasn't true of him in civilian life.
MR. JENNER: You don't know one way or the other?
(Jenner knows it would be disastrous to let it slip that Thornley had met Lee Oswald when they were both civilians.)
EXAMPLE:
MR. JENNER: Did you think it went beyond that, this unkemptness or this sloppiness?
MR. THORNLEY: It did go beyond that, because he seemed to be a person who would go out of his way to get into trouble, get some officer or staff sergeant mad at him. He would make wise remarks. He had a general bitter attitude toward the Corps. He used to pull his hat down over his eyes so he wouldn't have to look at anything around him and go walking around very Beetle Bailey style.
A Brave Man Tells a Different Story About Lee Harvey Oswald (Compare to Kerry Thornley's version)
Lee's Group Leader, Nelson Delgado, said he was threatened with death for stating the truth about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was even shot in the shoulder. In this video, he tells us that he moved to England with his family because he feared he would be killed by the FBI.
From Delgado's Testimony to the Warren Commission:
[CONTEXT: Delgado previously explained that both of them had supported Castro over the dictator, Batista, and that Lee Oswald wanted to help free the Cuban people.]
Mr. DELGADO -... He spoke Russian pretty good, so I understand.
Mr. LIEBELER - How do you understand that?
Mr. DELGADO - He tried to teach me some Russian. He would put out a whole phrase, you know. In return for my teaching him Spanish, he would try to teach me Russian. But it's a tongue twister.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't have any understanding of the Russian language?
Mr. DELGADO - No...You have to have a desire to use this language, you know, and I had no need to learn Russian. And just the reverse of him. He wanted to learn Spanish. He had some idea of using Spanish later on. I'm sure if this hadn't happened, he probably would be over there now, if he hadn't been already.
Mr. LIEBELER - In Cuba, you mean?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you have any reason to believe that he has been in Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO - Well, a guy like him would find--would have no difficulty in getting into Cuba. They would accept him real fast.
Delgado shows that he was an actual friend who wanted to see Lee Oswald again, when he makes this comment:
Mr. LIEBELER - You never met Oswald at any time while you were in Germany?
Mr. DELGADO - No. I wanted to---I knew that he was over there going to school, and I can't for the life of me recall where I got the scoop that I thought he was going to some school in Berlin, and I was thinking of going over there, to see if I could find him, but I never did follow through. There was too much red tape.
Here's more that's positive about Lee from Delgado, and it includes information I can agree with, about Lee's high intelligence (IQ tests back then did not take into account dyslexia, as they would today):
Mr. LIEBELER - Just how well do you think Oswald learned to speak Spanish during the time that he was associated with you in the Marine Corps?
Mr. DELGADO - He could meet the average people from the streets and hold a conversation with them. He could make himself understood and be understood...
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think Oswald was an intelligent person?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; I did. More intelligent than I am, and I have a 117, supposedly, IQ, and he could comprehend things faster and was interested in things that I wasn't interested in: politics, music, things like that, so much so like an intellectual. He didn't read poetry or anything like that, but as far as books and concert music and things like that, he was a great fan.
Delgado also doesn't take the bait that Liebeler offers:
Mr. LIEBELER - This FBI agent says that you told him that Oswald became so proficient in Spanish that Oswald would discuss his ideas on socialism in Spanish.
Mr. DELGADO - He would discuss his ideas, but not anything against our Government or--nothing Socialist, mind you.
While Delgado agreed that some officers thought little of Lee, and some, such as an Officer Funk, picked on Lee habitually, Delgado asks to go on record to correct a lie made by an officer to Life Magazine:
Mr. DELGADO - May I go on the record, because there was a statement I read in Life Magazine?
Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.
Mr. DELGADO - And it's erroneous.
Mr. LIEBELER - What did it say?
Mr. DELGADO - It is quoting a Lieutenant Cupenack, and he made a statement there in Life... saying he was Oswald's commanding officer, Oswald was on the football team... that is the only true fact in the whole statement that he made. Also that he [Lee] had a run-in with a captain that was on the football team, and because of this argument he went off the team... Lieutenant Cupenack was a supply officer. He seldom came in contact with Oswald. ..
Mr. LIEBELER - This lieutenant?
Mr. DELGADO - Right. I just thought it funny, him saying that he was commanding officer over Oswald; that he had a lot of trouble with Oswald. ..a supply officer hardly ever comes in contact with the troops, and to say that a lieutenant is going to override a lieutenant colonel is ridiculous.
Delgado noted that a hated officer--Funk-- and Lee Oswald didn't get along at all, and that Funk picked on him; in response, Lee would resist obeying him:
Mr. DELGADO - He [Lee] had nothing to do with him. Always tried to find fault. The man had a lot of faults. He was very sloppy.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who?
Mr. DELGADO - Funk. And he had a tendency to---he was very--very bad leader, in my opinion, because NCO's in the Marine Corps, you carry a sword, and we loved to see him carry a sword, because when you salute him, he brings the sword up to here (indicating) like this, and one of these days it's going to happen, because the blade would be swinging next to his ear, and we're all waiting for that thing to happen. That's what I remember about Funk. He wasn't there too long.
Delgado describes Lee concerning anger management (There is no doubt that Lee was prone to gripe. Delgado says "Oz" was obedient if asked to do something, but would argue if he was ordered to do it. ):
Mr. DELGADO - ....he never got into arguments with me. He liked to talk politics with one fellow particularly, Call, and he would argue with him, and Oswald would get to a point where he would get utterly disgusted with the discussion and got out of the room. Whenever it got to the point where anger was going to show, he would stop cold and walk out and leave the conversation in the air.
Mr. LIEBELER - He never got mad at anybody?
Mr. DELGADO - Not physically mad, no.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever know him to get into a fight with anybody at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO - No.
Compare this with what Kerry Thornley told the Warren Commission:
MR. THORNLEY: ...he seemed to be a person who would go out of his way to get into trouble, get some officer or staff sergeant mad at him...
(later) MR. JENNER: To what did you attribute this inability of his to maintain reasonably cordial or at least military-service family relations with his fellow marines?
MR. THORNLEY: Well, at the time I just thought -- well, the man is a nut
To the very end, regarding Delgado, Liebeler did his best to try to elicit support for a final "lone nut" and "crazy" statement from Delgado. After all, they had been successful in guiding Kerry Thornley into making such a statement.:
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever think that he was mentally unbalanced?
Mr. DELGADO - He never got real mad where he'd show any ravings of any sort, you know. He controlled himself pretty good.
Mr. LIEBELER - If you can't remember anything else about Oswald, I have no more questions
A Little about Kerry Thornley's Later Life
In 1965,
Thornley published another book titled Oswald, generally defending the "Oswald-as-lone-assassin" conclusion of the Warren Commission, which met with dismal sales. In his later years, Thornley became convinced that Oswald had in truth been a CIA asset whose purpose was to ferret out suspected Communist sympathizers serving in the Corps.
In January 1968, New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison, certain there had been a New Orleans-based conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy, subpoenaed Thornley to appear before a grand jury once again, questioning him about his relationship with Oswald and his knowledge of other figures Garrison believed to be connected to the assassination. Garrison
charged Thornley with perjury after Thornley denied that he had been in contact with Oswald in any manner since 1959. The perjury charge was eventually dropped by Garrison's successor Harry Connick, Sr.
Thornley claimed that, during his initial two-year sojourn in New Orleans, he'd had numerous meetings with two mysterious middle-aged men named "Gary Kirstein" and "Slim Brooks". According to his account, they had detailed discussions on numerous subjects ranging from the mundane to the exotic, and bordering sometimes on bizarre. Among these was the subject of how one might assassinate President Kennedy, whose beliefs and policies the aspiring
novelist deeply disliked at the time.
Later, the former Marine came to believe that "Gary Kirstein" had in reality been senior CIA officer and future Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt, and "Slim Brooks" to have been Jerry Milton Brooks, a member of the 1960s right-wing activist group, "The Minutemen". Guy Banister, another Minutemen member in New Orleans, had been accused by Garrison of involvement in
the assassination and was connected to Lee Harvey Oswald through the Fair Play for Cuba Committee leaflet. Thornley also claimed that "Kirstein" and Brooks had accurately predicted Richard M. Nixon's accession to the presidency six years before it happened, as well as anticipating the rise of the 1960s counterculture and the subsequent emergence of Charles Manson and what became his cult following. This led Thornley to believe that the US
government had somehow been involved, directly or indirectly, in creating and/or supporting these events, personages and phenomena.
In the wake of this period, Thornley came to believe (among many other things) that he had been a subject of the CIA's LSD experiments in the MK-ULTRA mind-control research program. While skeptics may dismiss as conspiracy theory some of his later notions – such as having been a product of occult-based Nazi Vril selective breeding programs – his claims regarding
participation in such highly-classified US government mind-control programs and foreknowledge of the John F. Kennedy assassination are consistent with the time period, his residences, and the nature and locations of his military service."
Thornley published another book titled Oswald, generally defending the "Oswald-as-lone-assassin" conclusion of the Warren Commission, which met with dismal sales. In his later years, Thornley became convinced that Oswald had in truth been a CIA asset whose purpose was to ferret out suspected Communist sympathizers serving in the Corps.
In January 1968, New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison, certain there had been a New Orleans-based conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy, subpoenaed Thornley to appear before a grand jury once again, questioning him about his relationship with Oswald and his knowledge of other figures Garrison believed to be connected to the assassination. Garrison
charged Thornley with perjury after Thornley denied that he had been in contact with Oswald in any manner since 1959. The perjury charge was eventually dropped by Garrison's successor Harry Connick, Sr.
Thornley claimed that, during his initial two-year sojourn in New Orleans, he'd had numerous meetings with two mysterious middle-aged men named "Gary Kirstein" and "Slim Brooks". According to his account, they had detailed discussions on numerous subjects ranging from the mundane to the exotic, and bordering sometimes on bizarre. Among these was the subject of how one might assassinate President Kennedy, whose beliefs and policies the aspiring
novelist deeply disliked at the time.
Later, the former Marine came to believe that "Gary Kirstein" had in reality been senior CIA officer and future Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt, and "Slim Brooks" to have been Jerry Milton Brooks, a member of the 1960s right-wing activist group, "The Minutemen". Guy Banister, another Minutemen member in New Orleans, had been accused by Garrison of involvement in
the assassination and was connected to Lee Harvey Oswald through the Fair Play for Cuba Committee leaflet. Thornley also claimed that "Kirstein" and Brooks had accurately predicted Richard M. Nixon's accession to the presidency six years before it happened, as well as anticipating the rise of the 1960s counterculture and the subsequent emergence of Charles Manson and what became his cult following. This led Thornley to believe that the US
government had somehow been involved, directly or indirectly, in creating and/or supporting these events, personages and phenomena.
In the wake of this period, Thornley came to believe (among many other things) that he had been a subject of the CIA's LSD experiments in the MK-ULTRA mind-control research program. While skeptics may dismiss as conspiracy theory some of his later notions – such as having been a product of occult-based Nazi Vril selective breeding programs – his claims regarding
participation in such highly-classified US government mind-control programs and foreknowledge of the John F. Kennedy assassination are consistent with the time period, his residences, and the nature and locations of his military service."
Spartacus tells us, under Thorney's biography, that "...in 1992 Thornley appeared on a television programme, A Current Affair. He confessed that he had been part of a conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy. However, he did not give the names of his fellow conspirators.
Kerry Wendell Thornley died in 1998. He had been working on a book with the journalist Sondra London. The book, Confession to Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK was published in 2000."
This is the man whose version of events in New Orleans is being depicted as truthful and reliable by several self-styled 'researchers' who want you to believe, so you will then discard the testimonies and statements of witnesses such as myself. (I'm taking risks to bring the truth to you.)
The next article will address the issue of whether or not Lee Harvey Oswald and Kerry Thornley met in New Orleans in May, 1963, and why it matters.
